I'm Dr. Laurie Glimcher, dean of Weill Cornell Medical College, and today I'm speaking to Dr. Anthony Sauve, associate professor of Pharmacology here at Weill Cornell. Dr. Sauve recently discovered that high doses of a vitamin normally found in milk can have implications in the fight against obesity. Dr. Sauve's study, which is still in the animal testing phase, epitomizes the promise of our cutting edge bench to bedside research that we hope will enhance human health for decades to come.
LAURIE H. GLIMCHER: There's an exciting buzz about your research and its implications for metabolism. What can you tell me about it?
ANTHONY SAUVE: Our laboratory has been focused on a compound called nicotinamide riboside, which I'll call NR. What this compound is able to do is go into cells. We collaborated with a group in Switzerland showing that the compound is able to get into the body of mice that are fed high-fat diets and enable them to resist the negative health consequences of high-fat diet, leading to much healthier animals. And we're hopeful that we can move that forward into humans.
GLIMCHER: The obesity epidemic in America — and increasingly in other countries — has received a lot of attention both in the media and in government, and in NYC, with efforts by our mayor to limit the accessibility of large soda drinks. How does your study play into the national dialogue?
SAUVE: Where we fit in is having something that's already in milk, other food products, that can be made more highly available, has the effects of making you more insulin sensitive, reduce weight gain, things that predispose you to that type 2 diabetic situation, is going to be extremely valuable because it becomes possible to bring that into people's lives before they actually have to go see doctors.
GLIMCHER: What methods are you going to be using to answer those questions and move this along to the next stage?
SAUVE: Our approach is multi-dimensional. We take a chemistry approach in many ways. One way we have been able to do that is to develop efficient ways to make NR in large quantities. NR has been known for a very long time but has only been available in very tiny amounts. So this is probably more NR than was in existence in one place 10 years ago, like nowhere in the world. [laughs]
GLIMCHER: I better not drop this then. Wow. So this is the magic substance, huh?
SAUVE: That's the magic stuff.
GLIMCHER: That's great. Maybe I should take a sip of it now.
SAUVE: I know, I know, I know, take some. [Glimcher and Sauve laugh]
GLIMCHER: Tell me a little about yourself. Where did you grow up? How did you become passionate about science?
SAUVE: I grew up in Southern California, in a town called Thousand Oaks. I played high school football, I ran track, my family was very interested in fishing. They took us to the ocean quite a bit and we did quite a bit of fishing on the surf. I was a very avid learner. When I got to college, it was fairly clear that I wanted to be engaged in biologic research. My interests in chemistry took the upper hand at that point. But I stayed always very close to biochemistry. I did my graduate work at Princeton and eventually realized I definitely wanted to stay closer to the biological sciences. I went to do a postdoc in biochemistry at Albert Einstein. These days, it's a little bit of all of those things: biochemistry, biology, chemistry. It all happens in my laboratory, and I think it's exciting to get to come to work every day and do that kind of thing.
GLIMCHER: A perfect example of the kind of cross-disciplinary research that I'm very eager to see occurring at Weill Cornell Medical College. It's so critical that we work together across all disciplines, and you're a good example of that happening in one laboratory. How did you get interested in this particular field of research?
SAUVE: That's a really interesting question and it's an unusual path, if you will. It was being in the right place at the right time, if you will. Well, I started my postdoc working on a different set of enzymes, but there was one common theme, and that was NAD. And so NAD was front and center at that point ... I went to work on NAD and looked at NAD signaling, and about three years into my postdoc, this family of enzymes called sirtuins was discovered. And the only thing that changed was the enzyme focus, but it was still NAD ... We've been working on NAD signaling now for 15 years. I think what's really great is that there are still new chapters to be written. It's always evolving. I am so happy with this current study because we moved out of theoretical land and into where possible treatments can become visible. You can actually go, 'Well, gee, what would happen if we did this in people?'
GLIMCHER: So you think there is a very important role for chemistry in biomedical research, to get back to the cross disciplinary theme.
SAUVE: I think chemistry is crucial. I think that biologists have liked to work with us through the years because we have brought chemistry into, in essence, the playground. If you're going to do research and you want to do something that's novel and you can only buy stuff, that's not going to be very enabling. If you can create things and bring those into the situation, you can change the ability of researchers to impact knowledge and change, potentially, therapeutic options. I think chemistry has a huge role to play in biologic research, and I think this is one of those examples where chemistry did play a key role because there was no real way to get this compound. And having a chemist say, 'We can make a lot more of this than just a few milligrams,' makes the big difference if you want to look at animals and then eventually people. You just need to have the ability to make things.
GLIMCHER: I understand you have licensed this exciting new discovery to a company, which I think is terrific. Can you explain how and why you think this is going to be helpful in moving this into humans sooner rather than later, thereby enhancing human health?
SAUVE: What I think is really important about academia is recognizing what academia is. This is an academic laboratory. The challenge in academic laboratories tends to focus on producing knowledge and enabling things that weren't possible before. And that's not to say companies don't do that. But this company should be able to take what we've done and scale it a thousand fold. So we have been able to make just short of a kilogram of NR in my laboratory. That's a lot of material. A kilogram is not enough to do studies in human beings. So we talked to the CEO of this company [ChromaDex Inc.] who is developing NR for commercial use. They want to make metric tons of NR for commercial use. To me, that's clearly something we can't do. The laboratories of an industrial company can do that. I think what's key here and what we've recognized here is that the ability of researchers to develop technology, have it protected and then have it be understood by outside commercial companies that can recognize its value becomes incredibly important for bringing research to people. I think what's also important, again focusing on this study, enabling research that illustrates the value of the compounds. If there's a compound that doesn't have that key breakthrough study, that compound isn't necessarily less promising. But the compound that has that key study gets a little bit more attention, a little more boost because, in reality, that process of bringing NR to humans is going to take a large number of people, all wanting to see what that compound can do. That's what we're hoping this company can accomplish, that they can use their strengths — which is dealing with other companies, medical facilities, food companies, nutraceutical companies — [so] that the promise of this compound can eventually be realized.
GLIMCHER: I understand that you worked with faculty on the Ithaca campus on this study. How was your experience doing that, and how do you think we can further expand and strengthen those kinds of interactions with our parent university?
SAUVE: The emphasis at Ithaca on agriculture, food products, understanding how nutrition can impact human health, is going to actually have a nice strong intersection with our laboratory interests. So we are really looking forward to seeing how that can build up into something.
GLIMCHER: You've been at Weill Cornell for several years now. What do you like best?
SAUVE: Weill is a terrific environment for collaborative biomedical research. In making a compound and finding that it has a strong effect on NAD and metabolism doesn't mean we can answer all the questions that we'd like to ask. Being able to find experts in mitochondrial research, experts in neuroscience, makes it so much easier for NR to march down the road towards realizing its potential.
GLIMCHER: I think Weill Cornell has a bright future ahead with the Belfer Research Building, doubling our research space. I'd like your thoughts on what we can do here at Weill Cornell to further your research and the research of other faculty members most effectively.
SAUVE: Putting people with complementary strengths in a proximity where they can actually do research together more easily, that's going to be important. Developing core strengths that everyone can participate in. Things like chemistry cores, microscopy cores, various kinds of cores that everyone can use and that make research easier to do. I think we have that, but I also think it's extremely important for the university to invest in those kinds of things. Those are the kinds of things that ultimately can limit what research can be done.
GLIMCHER: I think you will be glad to hear that the 16th floor of the Belfer Research Building is going to have 40 chemical fume hoods.
SAUVE: Chemistry should also be very important in — I think — Cornell's future.
GLIMCHER: Well, thank you for taking the time out of your schedule. I loved hearing about the work, and I'm very excited about the possibilities. This area is extremely important, has enormous public health ramifications and is something that I would like to see strengthened at Weill Cornell going forward.